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October 07, 2008

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Jordan

EDIT: "...political inclination, ECONOMIC theory..."

Jordan

To answer my own question (which has seemed to silence the uninformed, uneducated, ignorant and utterly foolish opposers of the stadium). The answer is 0. That's right the big goose egg. It's easy to say "A team should fund its own stadium." But how realistic is that? How many teams are doing it? Zero. Read some of the arguments proposed by economists that are pro-stadium and you will see that their arguments are based on statistics and facts, as opposed to political inclination, theory, or bitterness.

Jordan

Just curious... Anyone who is against the stadium: Can you name me one baseball stadium among the ones that have been built in the last 6 years or that are being built now that has been completely privately funded either by the organization or by donors?

Lisi

You guys sound ridiculous. "The Marlins should pay for the stadium with their outrageous salaries" The Florida Marlins are the cheapest team in the league. They are also not guaranteed to play here forever, so why would they pay for the stadium. The Florida Marlins play in a stadium with two other football teams. They deserve their own stadium. How embarrassing is it that these two time world champions are being played this way. The stadium would provide jobs, not to mention liven up the Little Havana area. The money would not come from us tax payers, but rather revenue from travels. So the money can't be used for education, though no doubt you all need it. ALSO, look at the money Dolphin stadium is bringing this year and you tell me how this isn't good for the economy of Florida. This year alone it's hosting the World Baseball Classic, and the National Championship game is here too. That means money from tourists comes here. In conclusion, stfu and vote for the stadium. Oh, and if you can't afford 15 dollar tickets (which are decent seats) then you're not an average family. You guys really need to do your research before you comment, and Brahman isn't anything but some bitter old guy.

Jordan

How is this in the taxpayers' expense? We literally are not paying a single dime.

Frank Dillon

Millions of people are facing foreclosure on their homes.
Why should we provide taxpayer's money to provide a stadium for billionaires ?
What a JOKE !!!
We should use taxpayer's money to fund our schools maintain our roads and other services which will benefit the majority of Floridians.
The owners of the Marlins are very wealthy people. If they want a stadium. I have a suggestion ... Go to a local bank and apply for loan. Stop looking for a Hand Out which amounts to nothing more than a Freebie at Taxpayers expense !!!

David Carter

if you want to read about the fallacies of using public funds for building new stadiums for millionaire owners, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED recently published two very good articles on the subject:

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1140877/index.htm

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1127640/index.htm

Jay Parks

The local South Florida press is being accused of playing ostrich and not being inquisitive at the sweetheart deal that the Miami politicians gave to the Baseball Marlins to give the taxpayers money away to New York Millionaires who live in Palm Beach so they can build that stadium at a horrible location. It took an out of town newspaper, The Wall Street Journal to write an article about the horror of it all.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122394181925330941.html

Venetia Timm

Let the Fish finance their own stadium from their outrageous salaries. Who's going to come to the games? Certainly not the average family. Who can afford tickets for decent seats? Certainly not the average middle income family, much less lower income folks. Why should taxpayers subsidize such extravagance for a team that can't even fill 1/3 of the stadium they already have?

Jordan

Apparently the people who have commented after me have not read my posts. Please read before making dumb assumptions. Because all you are doing is making yourselves look like stupid, ignorant people. Anything labeled "Jordan" will serve its purpose in educating you on the matter since, apparently, you guys are not.

Pete R

Baseball is a positive for the community. It keeps kids off the steet and provides a wholesome family activity as well as an awesome venue for family discussions. My Father taught many life lessons between innings. The ball park is a great place to step out of the rat race and engage in good family communication. Also, in the schools, I'd much rather have our youth discussing a Freddy Gonzalaes decision rather than the latest "X" rated music lyrics. Additionally, Marlins baseball has quietly become the glue that bonds together the many diviersities of our South Florida culture. Think about it. Before baseball our South Florida Latin community was much more segregated. I am all for Public funding of the new stadium. We also need the South florida media to start publicizing the many heroic stories that Marlins players encountered along their way to the big leagues. We all know how hard it is to make it "the bigs". There are many stories of players making the right choices, work ethics and diciplines. There are 100 heroic stories on the ball field for every one negative story. Yet, the S. Fla media chooses toinflate the negatives and make the heroic obscure. That is primary reason attendance is low and an intelligent man like Mr Braham misses the value of having baseball in Miami.

Jacqueline M.

Public money should not be used for any stadium. Since Miami-Dade County has so much money to spare, it should be given to the Dade County School Board for educational usage. Thank you Norman Braman for being our voice.

Morton Moskowitz

Why does the tunnel have to be linked with the stadium project? I think that the tunnel is essential, but the stadium is optional and should be privately financed.

R. Shields

So many of these stadiums become "pink elephants" like the Miami Arena because they never deliver the economic benefit. Sport franchises have clearly illustrated that they can pay ridiculous salaries why can't they pay the debt on the stadiums they feel they require to house a couple hundred fans. Professional sports definitely should rely on other joint venture partners and funding.

On the other hand, I believe that if it were an intellegent business decision and if the city and county could ever fullfill and deliver a construction project without going millions and even billions over budget, then the citizens could consider this. However, so far the leaders of this city have proved otherwise; that we are far from ready to become a world class city.

Phil Rose

What's wrong with PP park? If they REALLY need a new stadium, let them pay for it out of the players' already-bloated salaries. The average balllplayer makes more in a year than I could expect to make in 10 lifetimes. THEN, on TOP of that, there's endorsements. MORE millions. But WE should pay for their damn stadium? What if they decide to strike again? We'll have pissed away however many millions for nothing. You want to play baseball and get all the perks that come with it? PAY FOR YOUR OWN DAMN PLAYGROUND!!!!! I'm worried if I'll be able to buy food or gas in a year, and on top of this I should pay for a stadium that we need like a bull needs an evening gown? BULLS**T!!!!

Ernie D

wow...this poll is such BS!!!!!!!!! just yesturday the poll was 80% to 18% in favor of the marlins and was like that for a whole week straight, now today it has completely flipped the other way. this poll is completely rigged 100%! wbpt your full of crap.

Chris F

In a matter of Hours Bramen makes up %20 of a losing vote and pulls ahead for the lead. Within a day, he is ahead by another 20%.

This poll has been tampered with or compromised. Either way, to use this poll to gauge the pulse of the voting masses would be a tragedy.

Shame on WPBT if they dare use this for anything more then toilet paper.

Larry Pius

The concept of asking for public funds for a Marlin stadium without long term revenue sharing is too absurd of a concept to even discuss in my view. Actually, I’m not even sure that I care if they move the team out of S Florida. They appear to have little or no interest in developing a winning team anyway. Every time a player gets to the point where he can demand anything above a minimum salary he gets sold off. How do they ever expect to develop any kind of fan loyalty by exploiting their fan base that way? You see so many great ex-Marlins, far too many to name, playing for all of the great teams around the league that it really makes your blood boil. I’ll bet most fans feel the same way that I do. Please end this farce already and move your damn team someplace else!

Fran Gaynes

No to the stadium. Let the owners of the team use their own money and money they borrow to fund it. There must be SOMETHING more worthwhile to the entire community that these funds can be used for.

robert kunz

No, do not use any more taxpayer money for professional sports!!

Nannette C Neubauer

Why should we taxpayers pay for a playpen in which the players, managers and owners reap ridiculus salaries when "Joe Sixpack" has to to ante up his own costs when going into a business, and hope it makes good?
How many of us even likes baseball??? Not many!
Pay your own bills! Take responsibility for your own game!!

Michael Garcia

Ilove baseball its America's game.There is something fundamentally wrong when new stadiums are built with the design to separate the common folk from the elite.When there are funds designated for community less privileged and they go to build stadiums.Our beloved president G. W. Bush,while I believe gov.of Texas had a tax passed to have a new stadium built for the Texas Rangers.They later sold the Rangers and guess who made the big profits.No,no not the common folk/tax payer,BUSH and COMPANY.You can read about in,Free Lunch by David Cay Johnston.

j

All you idiots saying that this money should be used for education, I GOT NEWS FOR YOU, IT CAN'T BE USED FOR EDUCATION...do your research before sounding like ignorant people.

Jordan

OK. Last one.. I promise hahaha. Why are people high on the drug I like to call "the Marlins fanbase is in Broward and Palm Beach." It isn't. The only reason this claim is being tossed around is to try to illegitimize the argument to build the stadium. Ultimate proof is that the current stadium is catering to the northern crowd and it clearly isn't working. I am sorry Browardites who are true fans but it's true. And who wants to cater to counties whose populations are decreasing year-by-year. Yeah that's real reliable. I work in Broward and no one cares about South Florida sports up here unless it's the Panthers. The Heat are a Miami-Dade team, the Dolphins are a Miami-Dade team (sorry, but you can't convince me otherwise Browardites; you guys just live in your own little bubble and like to believe that you are the Dolphin fan base), and the Marlins probably have the biggest Miami-Dade following. Look, I know these things can't be substantiated, but you go to Miami and all the sports bars are full and have Marlins, Heat, and Dolphins games playing, but when you go to Broward it's sad that you have to go to a Flannigan's that is half full watching a Panthers game. Sorry.

Jordan

Oh and taxpayers are not paying for the stadium so whatever farce that you guys are believing is exactly that... a farce. It's coming from tourist taxes. Are you tourists? No. So stop claiming that it's your money because it's not.

Jordan

Mr. George Skokan, do you not realize that everything you said is absolutely wrong? Where on God's green earth do you get your info. There is more public transportation in and out of the Orange Bowl area than almost any other part of the county! And the Marlins fan base is clearly not in Broward and Palm Beach, which is why no one goes to the games. You put the stadium closer to the real fans and they will go. Catering to the northerners clearly isn't working now so why continue to do so. Oh and for all of you who think this is outrageous keep in mind that about 95% of all stadiums and arenas built are done using public money. And the Marlins organization is putting down more money than the average organization for a stadium. In conclusion, I have been keeping track of this poll and I feel that it might be rigged. Literally after a refresh a few days ago the Marlins lead of 80-something% has changed to a trail? We want unbiased journalism, not this crap that the South Florida media is always doing.

ellen coddington

no, tax payers should not pay for a stadium

M.Riopel
Pat Garcia

The idea that these New York-Montreal-Palm Beach owners of the Marlins that ran Montreal baseball into the ground and destroyed the game up there are coming to Miami "slumming" to put their baseball team in that awful location, with the terrible access problems, and the wrong demographics to support 82 home games, says everything that they got a deal that they could not believe themselves. SWEET SWEET SWEET... and terrible for the City and Taxpayers.

The owners did it because they will be able to sell the team for MANY MANY MANY times over once they have a stadium. They will sell it and leave that team there, ostracized from the considerable fan base of North Broward and Palm Beach there in another WHITE ELEPHANT project. You will have no sufficient support after the inital interest dies off. But these guys got the sweetest deal from those two now untrustworthy politicians, Mayors Alvarez and Manny Diaz.

Nobody has given the house away like that and done it behind the doors at midnight when people scurry off to hide from reporters and BLOCK OFF TAXPAYERS VOTE as if we were in A BANANA LAND... well maybe we are in such a place. Mayor Diaz and Mayor Alvarez certainly acted like it and the owners of the Marlins were there to cherry pick the best of the best ... where else can you get a building made for you and wrapped in beautiful extras like ALL PROFITS TO ALL EVENTS, CONCERTS, ALL EVENTS plus concessions, merchandising, parking profits.

I AM SURE THAT EVERY NIGHT THOSE MILLIONAIRE OWNERS GO TO BEAD SAY TO THEMSELVES: "we are not worthy."

M.Riopel


IN REFERENCE TO THE BASEBALL STADIUM CONVERSATION:

Baseball is a great sports which we love very much in our family. But, you can see two WELL RESEARCHED articles from Sports Illustrated that debunk the fallacy of the supposed benefits obtained from using public funds to increase the equity of millionaire sports owners without their having to risk much. Here are the links to those recently published SPORTS ILLUSTRATED articles which are called:

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1140877/index.htm

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1127640/index.htm



THESE ARE THE TITLES OF THE TWO ARTICLES IN LINKS ABOVE:
.................................................
1) Shake Me Down At The Ball Game
Subtitle: Modern parks make watching the national pastime a rich man's pursuit
................................................
2) Going Against The Percentages
Subtitle: Last week I walked through Anacostia High, a five-minute drive from Nationals Park , where the walls are peeling and garbage litters the halls. I drove past the Anacostia Library, empty and surrounded by a cyclone fence.

M.Riopel

George Skokan

We don't need socialized professional sports!! Also,The proposed location makes no sense since a large number of those who do attend are from Broward and Palm Beach Counties. Furthermore, there isn't any handy available public transportation to the old Orange Bowl site. The area of the Hialeah Race Track make more sense.

LaChina

It is funny how some people feel so passionate about using taxpayers money to finance the marlin's stadium. I don't see people being so passionate and verbal about how the school board steals our childcare's education and our taxpayer's money.

TMorgan

This is rigged! It's really suspect that Braman was losing by leaps and bounds on this poll and then jumped ahead in a matter of a few hours. Wonder how much he paid to have that done.

Stewart Daily

It's strange how all these votes to bring Braman to the top of the poll all came within 8 hours, despite the Pro-Marlins votes were much had a huge lead.

But hey, who need morals?

Walter Kidde

Not with my taxes. Glad someone is taking a stand against supporting sports entrepreneurs with public money.

Jay Mathis

I agree with Denise Bender!
If there were any interest in attending Marlins games, the true fans would come to
Marlins games in Dolphins' Stadium. The fact that they do not, strongly suggests that they will not come to a new stadium either. Of course, there will be a temporary interest in coming to a new stadium, but it will be
short-lived. We have no fan base. I'd be for it if
the corrupt Mayors had not agreed to let the Team keep
all revenues, which should
mnean they pay all expenses, and cost of the
construction.
In Broward,where the Panthers play, an arena was built with taxpayer money, and Broward gets all the revenue, plus from all the concerts and events
that take place there all year. Any idea what the old
arena, built by taxpayer money, will take in a year to pay off it's bond, now that neither the Heat nor
Panthers play there? another good investment
brought to you by the prople who want the public
to fund another "white-
elephant" project for a professioinal sports team.

Natalie

No Marlins stadium unless they pony up the money. Norman Braman is my hero.

Carlos Gomez

No way !! Its not a public stadium !!

Elizabeth Redmond

We don't have the funds to provide for the citizens of Miami-Dade county. We should not use them for a private company.

Nellie Costa

Sick and slick are the politicians in this back room midnight secret deal, the 2 Mayors no doubt will have their private skybox for their families, elected as they are they neglect their duties, giving the house where their taxpayers live away to outside carpetbaggers from Montreal and New York.

And not only buying a stadium for these millionaires was not enough, the owners of the Marlins have the rights to ALL the profits from ALL OTHER EVENTS, baseball or not, sports or not, they also have been given the profits from ALL parking and concessions.

HOW IS IT THAT WE ELECT THESE PEOPLE TO OFFICE? ARE WE THE FOOLS THAT STUFF OF LEGENDS IS MADE OF.

SHAME ON MAYOR MANNY DIAZ the defeated lawyer who gained fame on his failure to protect Elian Gonzalez. And then the other man, Mayor Alvarez, who has selected to take the wrong crooked fork in the road here also.

Laz Reyes

I think the poll speaks for itself...

Can't wait for opening day 2011! Thank you David Samson and County Officials for making this come true!

BL

The Loria Clan is stuffing the ballots of this survey because there are mountains of money here that are being moved and buried and swindled and THE BANANA REPUBLIC seems to be in full business here.

A CLASSIC SWINDLE AND THE MAYORS, THE TWO OF THEM, SHOULD BE DECLAWED AND MADE INTO EUNUCHS AT THE OLD TOPKAPI PALACE FOR ENGAGING IN THIS HEIST

BL L

-"Bad Idea: Because this is a privately owned team and The Marlins should pay for their own stadium or at least let the public decide via a vote if they want to fund this project which gives ALL REVENUE RIGHTS and concessions revenue for ALL events (including parking concerts, rallies, and all non-sports events) go to the owners of the Marlins who by contract will have a right to ALL the revenues made with the use of the stadium."

But that is not the issue here. The issue is different. Should we fund sports millionaires with public funds when they should be building it themselves particularly when all of the revenues for all future events will be collected by these baseball millionaires who do not even live in Dade Country. They are basically outsiders to Dade County from other places who are coming to Miami because Mayor Diaz and Mayor Alvarez are giving the house away, so much so that the these owners are willing to put the stadium in the worst traffic jam spot in all of the County and they are willing to push away the support of the counties to the North the residents of which will simply not travel there after the initial new stadium novelty is worn off. And they are doing this because once the team has its own stadium, particularly one with this kind of Sweetheart Deal, the value of their investment will go through the roof and it will happen all with the help of taxpayer money.

david Colas

This will only benefit the Marlins and the County Commissioners (the down town mafia) This is so ridiculous and so obvious, these people don't care for their constituency only for themselves, with all the problems facing Miami Dade County such as education, traffic, crime poverty, low paying jobs, high property taxes, and health care, just to name a few, all these jokers are looking for is free tickets to the games, how cheap has a commission seat become.

Maria Gowski

We all have to remember that the money that is being used by the Florida Marlins is part of the CRA. I highly encourage you all to visit http://www.miamidade.gov/crepad/objectives.asp and read the purpose of the CRA specifically the 2nd Bullet. The money that is being used for the construction of a new Marlins stadium, in no way, taking money from schools or any type of educational programs. If we were talking about the schools, please feel free to investigate the School Board to see where they are appropriating the monies that the Local and State Governments have given to them, it's a totally corrupt system and DOES NOT have to do with the Marlins stadium. This "tax money" is not coming from our pockets, but from taxes that tourist pay to stay in area hotels. You pay the same type of taxes whenever you stay at any hotel anywhere, whether is would be in Disney, NYC, etc. I think Norman Braman is just wasting time and money (oh that's right, he could technically write off the lawyer expenses in his taxes since he is doing "a service to the community"). Also, let me point this out to you, people do not go to games because they simply are not guaranteed to get the games played during the rainy season. With a new stadium, that would not be a problem and I am sure that locals would be attending games and it would revitalize a "dead" area. Let's bring in PROGRESS and a new home for the FLORIDA MARLINS!

Denise Bender

The Marlins should pay for their own stadium or seek private sector funding. They can't even sell out a game! Miami will lose money on the deal.
I feel Miami should focus on education. Any public money used for public projects should be decided by the voters.
I am glad Norman Braman took a stance.

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